NTCC makes for bad parenting . . . . .

I recently reunited with a friend; one that I had parted ways with when she was wise enough to leave the cult before I did. I didn't want to but I was hopeful that all was well with her and we'd meet again one day . . . . And we did! But as she and I were sitting down conversing, she said something along the lines of: 'All NTCC parents are bad parents’. I knew what she meant because I was an ntcc parent. You are so brainwashed that you must follow their schedule or you'll go to hell and your family along with you. You don't get to spend enough time with your children. You're so mentally beat down and worn out that you can't give YOU to them. You're kept so poor you can't buy them any thing unless it was $1 day at the "Kook" store. And events for your kids? Forget about it! New shoes, IF you're lucky, mom will save every penny (literally) and buy you a new pair every other year, other wise deal with the cheapies. Prom - never. . . . . . what would the cult think if I let you be a teen? Christmas - why aren't you happy with one little $5 gift? BUT you'll always see the children dressed in their best for church. Yep, you don't want to let anyone know things are hard. And why? Because you'll get lamb basted that you can't manage your money! Really when the husband works making say $12/hour and rent takes up half the check, gas, utilities, insurance (those who have it - I know it's law but it's luxery if you're in ntcc) and if the wife is lucky she gets about $30 a week to feed a family AND make food for fellowships.

I actually did better off when I was single, before I married one of the "Ministers". He lied about his ability to earn a descent living. He worked @ $10/hr. I was making almost double that. I provided for my boys and we went to conference all the time (Well I didn't take them but to 1/3rd) but I went. They were fortunate enough (then) to get a new pair of shoes 1-2 times per year and some new clothes for school. But as soon as I was married, the lies became reality and the problems began financially.

Now there are 2 things I will share that I'm really not proud of and I have a hard time forgiving myself for ever being this way so it's not easy sharing but. . . . .During my first year or so, I had heard over and over and over and over about how kids should behave, how they should act. I was sure since we were a very small group at that time, the pastor was talking about how my boys acted out (normal child acting out but then I started thinking GASP they are so bad). I even went to the pastor for 'counseling' yeah joke - they don't counsel. Anyway I asked him what I should do to correct them. He would reference spare the rod, spoil the child. He even used stories of sometimes you have to whip them into submission. I even recall asking how you know if it really sends the message. I was told something like you'll know because the tears will turn real - something like they give crocodile tears then when they know you mean business they turn real. So I thought ok, that's what I need to do. I took my son to his room one time when he acted out and I spanked and spanked until the tears became real. To this day I hate I ever did that and it was the last time also!

It gets worse though. I told my pastor about it. It was laughed about but really, I think now, why in the world wouldn't he have said woman, you can't do that to your child, that's border line child abuse or really, it is child abuse. He could have reported me to authorities for doing that. As his duty as a "Minister" he should have! Instead, it was laughed off and comments were made, about him learning and I bet he'll remember that every time he sits down and so on (paraphrasing). This is ntcc folks and you can (as MCK would say) ‘bet your thumpin gizzard’ this isn’t the only case of something like this! I heard parents all the time making comments and they weren’t nice. Parents get extremely embarrassed if a child does something because again, they don’t want to get lamb basted! THEY ARE CHILDREN! LET THEM BE KIDS!!

As I said, I didn’t continue on with spanking like that but I did get upset at them if they were ‘out of line’. I’d ground them, send them to their room, make them sit something out, etc. Yes, I know parents all over the world do it but it’s different when your kids are already lacking your time because you’re giving it all to a cult.  So the next thing that really bothered me is when my oldest son graduated 7^th grade. The pastor’s wife kept saying you’ll be able to make it to church still after wards. I sat there at a first graduation of any of my boys more worried about why are they running behind? Why is this taking so long? I’m going to miss if they don’t hurry up, what will I tell them? RIDICULOUS! But this is all part of the brainwashing. . . . . . controlling your every thought. We didn’t make it to service that night. I did stay and finally concluded you know what, whatever. It’s my son’s graduation and so be it.

In conclusion, I’ve apologized to my boys over and over. I finally have gotten to the point where they forgive me now I have to forgive myself, and I have. That is why the guilt has turned to I have to help someone. We are here to share our stories and other’s stories in hopes to help. If someone reads any of these blogs and says yep, been there done that, there is help. There is hope. Reach out to one of us. We care! God cares! Your children might not get any better if you don’t leave, get healing and confess your brainwashed ways as wrong. My oldest son recently gave his life to Christ. He was the boy in both of these stories. He has seen a genuine change and healing in my life. Your children can too. God bless you and may you open your heart to hear the truth from God.

Can you get to heaven on a lie?

This isn't my typical post BUT, apparently I too struck a chord with you Mr ntcc. How about you, Mr Kekel, did I hit a nerve? It's amazing how you tell people lies and create rumors over those that have left. Now I have heard from several people the lies and rumors. You know it takes a mighty small man to do that. Mr Kekel you're not the only one. Mr ntcc - that's all of you who do it. So Mr ntcc folk, what's the fear? You know why we're fighting doncha? We want to see your lying scams end.

I had another post I was going to work on about bad parenting in ntcc (so don't worry I will still do it) but you messed with my family. I don't care what you say about me Mr Kekel, I don't! But when you say things that end up affecting my boys - you're going to mess with the mama bear. One of my sons had a friend who is still in your cult. This son of mine can careless about you and your cult. He doesn't think about you or that forsaken place and he doesn't tell anyone to go or not. But you told this persons family to have nothing to do with us and now this friend won't speak to him. They may be scared, but I'm not. You have my number and my email call me, unless you're too scared. I dare you! Invite me to meet you somewhere with your tow alongs, I don't care. Say something TO ME not just about me. Wait, but you're not reading this blog right - you don't read this "garbage" do you? So why would you go say things about those of us who blog about ntcc? HMMMM wouldn't be because you're a lying hypocrite would it?

When I say something, it is facts. What have you got on me? ALL I ever did when I was in your cult was act like a dumb faithful puppy. NOW that God has given me healing and restored my sight, I share the TRUTH of what I know. THE TRUTH and in public. If you had ANY truth on me that wasn't of good report about me I DARE you to post it publically! I can say that AND I can go to sleep tonight knowing I have nothing to hide. How does it feel to have skeletons chasing you? I'm just saying.

I really hadn't planned this at all but confrence time brought you pulling out your lies again. So many lies you have made up about so many people. Why don't you man up mr lies and face us like a real man would. If not, why don't you continue "Not reading these blogs" and leave us alone. We're just here sharing the facts. You've encouraged me to keep going. And for that, I thank you! We don't blog lies, we blog the truth so others will find healing and understanding to their feelings.   

Is it a church? How do they keep you??

If you are currently in NTCC I ask and pray that you will read this whole article. If you get agitated, disagree, get angry, whatever, PLEASE read it all. In fact, before you do, I encourage you to pray and ask God to help you to see if any of this resignates with you. Ask God to show you any truth that may come from this. If you feel doubt while you're reading, don't dismiss it. Pray and ask God to reveal the truth to you.

Recently I shared something with someone and I told them about sensory overload. I saw something on the movie Zero Dark Thirty in which I told my son about sensory overload. That phrase was really nagging at me. I began to think about how teaching and brainwashing came about from ntcc to the degree you actually begin to 2nd guess yourself and everything you know, knew, believe, and believed. I researched brainwashing, sensory overload, cults, etc. I found a lot of information (and if you look in the various blogs here this isn't a new topic). But I found this page to be straight almost a replay of many things from ntcc. The person who wrote it is not from ntcc. His name is "Raphael" and the sites page is: http://raphaelonline.com/cults.htm. He gave me permission to use his information.  I have removed a point or two and at the end of each point I entered (Kat says: then my point ~ ok maybe a little sacrasim too but you'll get my point) as such. I pray this helps many who read!

1. Immediate environment control

- This is maintained and expressed in these ways: group only activities, isolation from other people, psychological pressure, geographical distance or unavailability of transportation, and various forms of pressure.  These pressures include, peer pressure from the members, or even physical abuse.  This form of control is achieved by immersing a person in a social environment where, in order to function, he must shed his old identity and adhere to the new identity desired by the group.  In other words, a radical transformation begins to take place within the person, from an outsider to a member of the cult. (Kat says: Ever felt pressured or isolated? I have. Please keep reading)

2. "Sacred science" - This is used by all cults, since in our age something must be scientific to have a substantial effect on people.  This refers to the fact that if the ideas of the group have worked for so many other people, it has become "science".  This is the most important reason for not questioning it, if the "science" works for others, but not you, then something is wrong with you, not the science or its application.  The cult can prove their science works by showing the multiple successful examples, so you need to work harder if the "science" is to work for you too.  This is also called the "blame the victim" mentality.  "No wonder it didn't work for you, you didn't do exactly as you were taught.  It's all your fault."  It's not the person's fault at all, but the inherent flaws of the system of the cult itself. (Kat says:  Yep, must be something wrong with you if you can’t reach souls. Please, keep reading)

3. Group language - This refers to the idea that a group replaces common language with their own internal-group language.  This new terminology also serves to replace complex thoughts and ideas with only a simple phrase.  In other cases, a whole new list of terms and phrases is required learning for the new person to begin to understand the conversations of others in the cult.  The group's clichés, or loaded language, also put up an invisible wall between believers and outsiders.  This wall further separates the group's members from the rest of society.  In reality, by incorporating the loaded language, they learn how not to think, or learn to think in narrow-minded terms. (Kat says: ‘That must be the devil’ telling you that you get exactly what this point means. Please, keep reading)

4. Doctrine over person - This refers to the internalized message that one must find the truth of the dogma and subject one's own experience to that "truth".  This is related to "sacred science" since a person shapes his own experiences around the "science" of the group.  Eventually, a person's entire emotional state is shaped around the cult's "science".  From there, the person learns to control his emotions so they comply with the emotions of the other people in the group.  Before long, a member need not think for himself because the doctrine does the thinking for him.  A person becomes happy only when he is with other members. (Kat says: Acting like someone or the way someone wants – sound familiar? Please, keep reading)

   

5. A unique form of salvation - This refers to the idea that if you are part of the cult, you are somehow spiritually better than everyone else in society, you have "seen the truth" or "seen the light".  Conversely, if you are not part of the cult, you "have not been shown the way" or "have not seen the light".  Group members approach people with the intent to show them that their group's way is the only way for people to "be saved". Saved from what depends on the specific group's goals, but usually refers to the cult's perceived evils of society.  (Kat says: Ok replace the word “cult” with the word “church” it’s still the same thing. You know we were taught we are ‘better’ than those not a part of ntcc. You know you look your nose down to them (or did if you’re an Xer). You know when someone leaves you consider them sinners. RWDavis says, “I’m not saying we’re the only church going to heaven BUT if others were, why would GAWD have called me to start this church? Please, keep reading!)

6. Love bombing - This is the act of over-affection by the people already in the cult for a newcomer, usually occurring in the early meetings.  This can mean a lot of complements, attention, and physical contact, handshaking, hugging, or pats on the back for anyone who is new.  The attention serves as a bond for the new person, he thinks, "This place isn't so bad, everyone here likes me."  The new person comes to appreciate this affection and attention, which he may or may not be receiving elsewhere.  Under the guise of "being friendly" or "being happy", this close physical contact serves to quickly draw the new person into the group.    New people don't realize the members are taught to suppress any negative feelings they have about the group and always show a continually smiling, "happy" face, especially when new people are present.  (Kat says: Yep, it was nice . . . . at first, wasn’t it? Please, keep reading!)

7. Mental confusion - This is what happens to a person when he accepts multiple, conflicting information at the same time.  Rather than having to deal with conflicting thoughts, a person almost "separates" himself from reality.  He starts to deny anything is wrong and continues to tell people, "Everything is fine.  Just wait until I get there.  Then you'll see I was right."    In reality, this leads to both a further detachment from reality and a further attachment to the cult's teachings.  And if a person were to question the conflicting information presented to him, he would probably be told, "Your question means you don't understand.  Continue learning and then it will become clear."  This "separation" occurs at about the same time that a person starts to lose his critical and logical thinking.      Adding the two, confusion and the loss of logical critical thinking, is a dangerous combination and what is commonly known as "brain-washing".  For example, if a person was told by the cult's leaders, "For you to be successful, you must believe that 2 + 2 = 5."  From then on, the person will think, "I'm not successful yet, I guess I don't fully believe that 2 and 2 is 5."  Rather than realizing he is denying the reality of the facts, a person tells himself to believe the "new reality" of the cult.  Before long, it will be he who is arguing to other people, that 2 and 2 really does equal 5.  And if a person is in this belief system long enough, leaving the group may require deprogramming to get a person out of these beliefs and back into reality.  (Kat says: People would ask me all the time, you’re not one of those Jim Jones’ are you? NOPE I’d say. Hmmm sure made it easier to believe nothing was wrong. So how does 2+2=5? Finally get tired, give up and just accept it, if you don’t that’s the devil holding you back. Anything resounding true yet? Yes or no, please, keep reading, please make it to the bottom!)

8. Charismatic leadership - This refers to the idea that the leadership of the cult has special powers or knowledge that the rest of the group does not have, or that the group wants to attain.  The leadership has the ability to issue orders that are followed by the cult without a second thought.  This is related to "sacred science", if the leaders have done something, the followers should do it as well and expect the same results.  The leaders can also control a member's emotions by teaching that "Loyalty and devotion are the most highly respected qualities of all."  To question the leadership is to be disloyal.  (Kat says: Yep, if it worked for ME your leader and it isn’t working for you, there’s something wrong with you. Is it? Or is God trying to help you see? Please, keep reading)

9. Deception - In a cult, deception can take on many forms, there can be lying about the organization's affiliation with other groups, lying about the size of the group, lying about the success in the group, or lying about group practices.  There can also be deception about what the end results of the group really are.      Sometimes, the deception is in the form of a hidden agenda by the leadership, an agenda to make money for themselves, sometimes at the expense of the group.  Because the cult is offering their own form of salvation, the deception is rationalized because the end goal justifies whatever means are necessary to achieve that goal.  As long as the people in the cult believe that what they are doing is "right" and "just" many of them think nothing of lying, stealing, cheating, even murdering.  (Kat says: Ok hold up a minute? Did this just say “To make money for themselves?” NO WAY they live in mansions because God has blessed them. Is that so? Where’s the truth about their books? Why won’t they show you? Where’s the truth about their #’s? When they take a big offering for a mission’s field they only send so much over – where does the rest go? Ok I’m not debating here. Please, keep reading!)

10. Suppression of thinking for oneself - I refer to the idea that a person's ability to critically analyze information becomes impaired or even non-existent.  Under the guise of "you are new, so you can't handle all the information at once," a new person is taught not to question the procedures.  After all, if a person wants to succeed in the group, he can't be questioning it.  As time progresses, the thinking becomes, "Stop worrying about it.  It'll all work out, you'll see.  You'll learn everything eventually."  And in order to keep new people from thinking too critically, older group members learn to answer questions with "non-answers".  If a controversial issue is raised, the older member may say, "You know, I used to think like that, but then I got the facts straight." or even, "How can you think that way?  I thought you were more intelligent than that."  Before long, a person practically stops thinking altogether.  (Kat says: OMG I lived this! I never got an answer, always a “non-answer”. I was told I was new and I didn't get it yet but I would (and oh how I do get it now!). As I ‘matured’ I’d end up telling others that too. I AM SO SORRY! I WAS wrong!! Please, keep reading – you’re almost to the end)

11. Discrediting outside information - This causes cult members not to listen to unbiased or "negative" information because those sources are "wrong".  Most of the time, the only reason these sources are "wrong" is because they are not promoting the group-accepted view of the world.  If you deny a person the information he requires to make sound judgments, he will be incapable of doing so.  And if you control the information someone receives, you restrict his free ability to think for himself.  In turn, this further places a person under the control of the cult's leaders.  Discrediting a source of information is usually easier than trying to debate the truth of the issue.  Why discuss the issue when the entire source is wrong?  The cult now has complete information control.  (Kat says: Can’t argue! Please, keep reading)

12. The loss of independent judgment - This refers to the idea that a person becomes virtually dependent on another person to make a decision for him.  Over time, a person has one of the cult's leaders make all his decisions for him.  This may eventually encompass a person's entire life, or at least all of their major life decisions.  A person's transfer of judgment is closely related to a person's loss of critical thinking abilities. (Kat says: We know how true this is, it’s like a game of mother may I? Instead it’s Davis May I. Please, keep reading – just 2 more)

13. Fear of leaving - In most cults, members are quickly taught that there will be serious repercussions if they were to leave.  When negative images about leaving the group are combined with suppressed logical critical thinking, guilt and fear is created in the member's mind.  They start to think, "I don't want that to happen to me.  I can't quit."  In fact, today's cults know how to effectively implant vivid negative images deep within members' subconscious minds, making it impossible for the member to even conceive of ever being happy and successful outside of the group.  Unknown to the members in the cult, this fear is completely irrational, no disasters will happen if the member were to leave the group.  (Kat says: Yep, when people would leave and people would say things about them, I’d say I’ll never leave, be it the will of God, but it was His will. I was horrified! I will say more after the last point so please, keep reading)

14. Sleep deprivation and fatigue - This occurs when activities relating to the cult begin to replace normal sleep and rest time.  Disorientation and sensory overload may occur at about the same time, when either too much information or too many sights and sounds overload a person.  Put a person into a situation where he is fatigued and his senses are overloaded with non-coherent information and the mind will go numb as a protective mechanism.  It gets confused and overwhelmed, and logical faculties no longer work properly.  This is what renders a person more susceptible and less critical to the information being received.  (Kat says: do I need to remind you of the schedule they have you on? Do you ever get to sleep? Are they killing you? Is it all really for the work of the Lord or to keep control over you? Is it to keep you working to bring more people in to help maintain their finances? Thank you for reading this! Please pray again and ask God to show you how much of what you read is true!)

When I left ntcc I was going thru a lot. In fact, I felt God thought I was nothing more than an example of a mistake and that God only allowed me to be born to show if he really wanted to make mistakes I was an example. YES I would tell myself that often. No one cared when I quit running the puppet game. I wanted a time of seperation from my puppet husband and instead he up and moved out and left me. I was treated like trash. It's ok, I already forgive him. That's what God teaches us to do - and if you're heart is right with God, you can do that.

I got healing and spiritually and mentally I'm better now than I ever was. But before leaving ntcc I drug myself to church daily out of fear if I didn't go, I'd be on my way to hell. Finally I concluded well, if I'm so wrong and everyone ignores me I must be of the devil so if I am going to die and go to hell anyway, why do it coming here, getting treated like trash, ignored, snub nosed, etc. If I was going to go to hell, I might as well not waist my time. 

I'm praying God "Washes your window clean". A friend shared that with me the other day when she said it was like God washed hers clean. I pray when you can see the truth that you will heal and realize there is no shame in leaving. I'm here to support you, pray for you, encourage you! You can email me any time at mommakat01@yahoo.com if you need encouragement or have questions.

Raphael - THANK YOU for the information and permission!

Who will care for them?

I've been reading an awesome book by Francis Chan called Crazy Love. He is an amazing person. For each chapter there are video's to go along with the chapter (for group studies). Watching this video made me think of the topic I am talking about today. I will post the video below.

In many other blogs there has been this topic of discussion about who will take care of my wife or family when the husband dies (so this is nothing new). We all know where ntcc stands. They won't do a crying thing. They don't care. All they care about is while the husband is alive he is working hard, giving all his time, blood, sweat, tears, and finances to them. They don't want the husband saving for his family in the event of his passing. They may try to say that isn't true but it is. They keep you so poor with disallowing the wife from working (read Proverbs 31 without listening to their twisted version and see the virtous woman had a job!) But the man is the only person allowed to work and seldom are they able to get a really good job because they have to give all their time to ntcc. So with the husband doing his best to make ends be met, how in the world is one to try to save for the future? They promote if you have money give more. Give until it hurts we've all heard it said (I can attest to hearing that more times than I can remember).

I could say more but it's already in several blogs out there. For anyone who has gone through this I'd like to see you share your story in the comments if you would. I think the more it's out there for people to read, the more visible it is, someone may read it and help them realize the truth.

To add some scripture to this, the following shows if you don't provide for your own family you're worse than an infidel. It also shows us we should visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction or need.

1 Timothy 5:8 - But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

James 1:27 - Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


chap 8  video from Crazy Love by Francis Chan (worth the watch, less than 7 minutes) This guy really challenges his audience in every aspect in the Word (thru each chapter of his book). I love how these people step up. They will help take care of each other if someone passed away. I know people who are men and women of God who will do the same too. If a wife who never worked a day in her life because she married at age 16, 18, whatever loses her husband at say age 55, who is going to hire her? What will pennies from the government due for her? Take her in. Put a roof over her head. Help her find a job, get her on her feet, allow her to stay a while and save. When she's ready, help her find a place for herself. That is what God would want you to do. Ntcc doesn't want you to care. Why not care? My Father in heaven does!

PS: If the video doesn't open for some reason, go to You Tube, type in Frances Chan Crazy Love Chapter 8

Abortions & fear, ntcc style

I'm going to interupt the run down of my life journey thru ntcc for the following:

I was sitting here thinking about the blog and thought Lord, where shall I start next? I mean after all, if I put every single little detail in here, we'd be here accounting for 13+ years worth. And I immediately got the following three situations (names will not be included as 2 parties didn’t want their names shared and the other I didn’t obtain permission to share).

·  Shortly after leaving ntcc a friend took me to a few classes for healing. In one class they end with people that pray over you and any topas (Greek for strong holds) in your life, etc. I was sitting and talking to someone prior to my prayer session. She asked me my story. I gave a very brief scenario. She asked what church I used to attend. When I told her she said OH! I recognized the tone but didn't ask. Later I did however ask what that meant. She shared she's helped people who have left the very same church and heard many stories and shared one with me that just takes the prize. She said that she worked part time as a counselor at a women’s clinic. She said two women on separate occasions came in for an abortion. Both women attended the seminary at ntcc in Graham, WA. They both were too afraid to tell anyone and both claimed they didn’t have family or friends that could help them or that would understand. THIS is what ntcc is creating! RWD, MCK you have instilled fear into these people. The bible tells us to love the sinner, not condemn them.  Those young women were horrified and now they will live with this for the rest of their lives. This lady shared with me their fear of what would happen if anyone knew they had sex, much less got pregnant. Sin is sin but God doesn’t condemn people the way ntcc does! God still loves them and patiently waits for them. At ntcc you learn how to ACT perfect. Thespians is what you get from ntcc. If you want a real relationship with God, LEAVE - God is waiting to love you!

·  Friend A – wants to leave ntcc. She has visited other churches on occasion. Her husband is aware and is fine with it. She told me that her husband agrees with her. She has shared how she knows that church shouldn’t be the way ntcc is. She said the only reason they haven’t left yet was her husband was too scared to leave. RWD, MCK, this isn’t a small man, he’s very well built and he has been beaten down so mentally he’s afraid to leave. Don’t laugh borg leaders, you will be held accountable (yes, I know you will eventually sneak and read this and I can already hear your snarly little comments!).

·  Friend B – also wants to leave ntcc but her husband is not convinced (YET but I’m praying!!). She fears she may have to up and leave without him. I pray not, but more so I pray for their salvation, sanity, and marriage. Ntcc – do you pray for their marriage? No, if she leaves, you’ll tell him it’s ok brother, your wife left, here, have someone else’s left over’s.

For those who feel helpless, hopeless, have no where to turn, it's not true. If you are feeling disparaged, and feel you have no one who cares, if you feel God isn't there, it isn't true! He is. You can always email me and I will be happy to talk with you. My direct email address is mommakat01@yahoo.com Hope and healing is out there for you, ntcc isn't the end of the road. It's the road you should leave behind you.

From the top . . . . .

Once upon a time . . . . (not too long ago LOL) I was born (hey how much more
of a beginning can we get right?? LOL) in Phoenix, AZ. (OK you'll see why I share, just follow me. . . . . from the top). I was sent on the church bus every Sunday morning. Reverend Worley of 67th Ave Baptist Church was my pastor (hell, fire & brimstone preacher with a huge heart of gold). When I was 12 he saw the love of the Lord in my life. My pastor invited me to consider being baptized after having a long talk with me and concluding I loved and believed in the Lord. The baptism never happened and my mom didn't send me to church any more.
When I was 15, I really wanted to be in church. I asked my mom and she finally allowed me to go to church again. When I was 16 I remembered reading Romans and I had been reading "Tracks" (something ntcc doesn't believe in using but it made the difference in my life!). I remember I was sitting in the youth room, behind the stage.  I had the bible in my hand and the tracks and I prayed to God, confessing my sins. I'll never forget that day! I had my then good friend looking for me. She came to me and asked me what was wrong (I was so excited I could barely speak). I told her and we just started shouting and jumping around like fish out of water. She said I want what you have so I told her everything I had read and knew and she prayed too. Again, fish out of water and we danced! It didn't take a holiness church (not bashing true holiness churches); it didn't take some hypocrite forcing stuff down my throat. It took time and it took God. With that, I was able to be a witness. I shared this part of my life to show my heart, my passion; my desire to know God (will tie in later as I go). 

In my 20's I left God, though he never left me. I rebelled and drank a little, a little doing the wrong things, etc. I had the best friend ever at this time of my life. Her name was Celina. She was literally like a sister to me. She and I were closer than anyone I have ever been close to. Thru my rebellious time, she was a good person, though she'd never been in a church. One day she had to go somewhere and decided to take a bus rather than her car. She met a woman on the bus that day. This woman told her about God. My friend (my then roommate) came home and told me about it and said she wanted to find a church and go. I knew God was talking to me. I didn't want to go that very next day. We agreed we'd go in a couple of weeks. Instead, a few nights later she and her boyfriend went to go visit his family. There was a freak accident in which she was hospitalized and a few weeks later she passed away.

I kept my promise to go back to church. I tried a few but no commitment yet. During this time of "Church shopping" if you want to call it, I hired someone when I worked at Yellow Cab of Phx. Unfortunately he wasn't very forth coming. His wife (We’ll call her “Chris") came in with a 2 month old baby and begged for me to keep him. This was the first encounter I had with someone from ntcc. I wish I would've gone with my gut and asked her to leave. Unfortunately I listened and I ended up hiring her instead (her plea's of no money, no food, and a brand new baby got to me). So, on her first night she was to work, I would do the training; my phone rang. It was Chris. She tells me her car broke down and she's trying everything she can to get in and she'll be there
as soon as she had a ride. Sucker - I asked her where she was. She gave the app. location. I said well I live right there, I'll pick you up, you find a ride home. I got to the location, it was her church.
Her pastor (Rev. Hall) came out to meet me. He and his wife are
really nice people. I have a hard time at this point of discussing my past because they are such nice people. BUT the most important thing I want to share today is; either they are nice and had a true desire as I did and they were brainwashed and really think they are right OR they are just as conniving as RWD, MCK and the rest of the leaders. Either way, no matter what, each of us has a story or as long as they stand by ntcc it speaks volumes to me. Those who have read the bible as much as he has, that have been preaching as long as he has, there has to be a degree in which they questioned what they were really being taught and what they were preaching and turned a blinded eye, or they willingly see how the ntcc leaders have gotten rich doing this and they want to be like them. Therefore, though I found the Halls to be very nice people, they stand for brainwashing & hypocrisy.
This “Chris” learned how to be a smooth operator. I didn’t realize then about her that which I know now. You see, right after really getting sucked into ntcc, she was without a place to live. Her lovely husband was in jail. She had 4 children. I had a nice home, a big home at that time (that was before ntcc. Life in ntcc meant I gave up everything including my 2,700 sq ft home!) I ended up moving her and her kids in with me. I quickly observed her lying and making excuses for things. I eventually was called in before the pastor and his wife while she excused her lies away and made it seem like it was me. See she was a seasoned ntcc pro. Don’t get caught, blame the other person and keep your standing. WHY? Because everyone is so brainwashed and so afraid of being bashed! When they suck you in, they get you to leave your family if they don’t join too. You no longer have family and friends. Ntcc is all you have and you don’t want to lose your abuser, after all, it’s all you have! It’s an awful feeling. To this day, “Chris” is still in ntcc and I’m sure she hasn’t changed. But I now forgive her (there’s more to the story!)

While I may not have strong evidence of wrong doing against ntcc as for the beginning, keep checking back and read as the story unfolds. I’m taking my life at ntcc from the top. I’m not looking to just bring out all the big points of wrong doing but all the points, even the small. With my first two posts the points may be small but they are points. I ask that as you read the various blogs that you’ll pray and ask God to show you the truth. Yes, at times they may be a bit forthcoming (for a lack of better words right now) but there is a lot of truth in these blogs. May you read them and find what God wants to show you and find healing.

I will conclude with the final questions, thought & scripture. When I was in ntcc, I heard Matthew 15 preached many times about the blind leading the blind. Jesus is asked to explain the parable. He basically says are you still dumb (he asks if they still need clarification) but really they were trying to still play dumb! (I say trying to as does ntcc. Many pastors and many BS students have read and heard the bible for how long? They have been preached to for how long? They still act dumb and just listen to whatever is told and they just do it. I can say this for once so was I!) So ntcc preachers – are you still so dumb that you will follow the blind leaders leading you down the wrong path? Are you still willing to spew forth the teachings of ntcc rather than really getting an answer from God and preaching the truth? Pay close attention to your KJV below. It’s what comes out of your mouth that is from the heart. When you lead your members astray, when you belittle them, when you’re greedy with them, it’s all coming from your heart! Why don’t you ask God to really show you the errors of your ways. Don’t criticize me because I’m free and writing about it. Every doubt you ever had was likely God trying to get your attention and you were to twitter pated with following the greedy lies of Davis b/c one day you want to be just like him. Pray and ask God to reveal the truth to you!
Members are you still willing to follow the blind into the ditch? Leave while you have any time of life left. God is good and doesn’t want to see you lying in a ditch.

KJV Matthew 15:10-20
10And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.12Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 14Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. 16And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 17Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

It's one thing if you get it from ntcc, go home, use the restroom and move on. It's another thing to sit around and let them take advantage of you. I followed. I had a heart and a passion to serve God. I was gullible and taken advantage of. I worked hard. When it was hard for me I gave more. When I didn't have time or money, I gave more. They preach it. They guilt trip it. They will call you out if you aren't doing it. NO ONE wants to be made an example of and it happens. I lost a lot in ntcc but God has blessed me more since I left. I have friends who care about me and my spiritual destiny. They won’t abandon me because I asked a question or because I left their church.

May you find peace and comfort and your days be filled with joy and the knowledge of a loving God who is full of grace.

Blessings,

Kat

A place for Xers to gather; find hope & healing & how to move forward (X NTCC, cult, legalistic church, HOPCC, all are welcome).

Welcome. This is my first post and first attempt at blogging. I have recently started following other blogs that have the same mission - to help others who have left ntcc (New Testament Christian Church) find their voice and find healing. Whether you are an Xer, exploring leaving, wondering why you are in a religion and don't seem to find God, please know you are welcome! If you are one of those still in a cult and wish to challenge, I suppose you're welcome too but you may not like hearing the truth.

I was in the ntcc for just over 13 years. Since leaving, I have had to deal with trying to heal and recover. Those of us who were sucked into the manipulative control of ntcc lost years of our lives, our families’ lives, etc. NTCC teaches if your family isn't saved you leave them behind. They will quote the bible to you in a twisted way to make you believe it is right. They will tell you to leave the unsaved family members by quoting: KJV Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. They will tell you they are dead spiritually - leave them and tell you to only do "God's work".

Let's talk about God's work. God didn't tell us to abandon our family. He didn't tell us to ignore the poor, the sick, the hungry. Because yes, they thumb their noses at the homeless, the unemployed, those in need, etc.
Jesus did tell us to go and preach the kingdom of God but I challenge any one to show me where in the bible it tells you to neglect your family and those around you in the world. In fact, in Matthew 9:10, it says: 
And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
And in Mark 2:13-17 it says: 
¹³ Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them. ¹⁴ As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.
¹⁵ While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. ¹⁶ When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
^{1 7} On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” (I can add more scriptures but these 2 make a point).
So they don't want you to spend time with your unsaved family or friends. Well the bible tells me that God came to save those who are lost. Even Christ ate with the unrighteous when He was here on earth. How else would you reach those who are lost? The ntcc often said we weren't called to have a soup kitchen. We weren't called to play sports. We weren't called to this that and the other. Well Jesus walked seeking those who were lost. And while the leaders in ntcc will preach these things at you, their children are participating in sports. Now, don't get me wrong, NOW I know there is nothing wrong with sports. I enjoy football! GO Niners (ok when the season rolls back around). But the leaders at ntcc are so corrupt and so deceitful. Check out any of the blogs or come back to mine from time to time. I'll share more as time goes on. There is quite a bit out there on these various blogs and I only hope and wish others will stand up and bring more to light so the truth comes out about how this church really is.  

They twist the scripture and brainwash you into believing what they say. When I attended, even when I went to their seminary, any time I read the bible, I could always hear what they said as I read. They tell you repeatedly if you question what they say, it's just the devil and if you give in to those thoughts and leave you're going to hell. 

Because of all the brain washing we didn't get to enjoy family time. Yet the leaders did. You always had to work, work, work. All work is of the Old Testament. Jesus came and offered grace. He didn't want us to do nothing but work. Works will NOT get us into heaven.  When I make friends with sinners I'M NOT going to hell. In fact, over time, I will show them the love in my heart and that my friend is how you win a sinner to Christ. NOT by forcing them to go or condemning them for not going. If I go to a bowling alley and make a new friend and over the course of time they see the love of God in me and come to know him, I did more than what ntcc has done.

Again there is so much to say and I want to blog from the beginning (I suppose, unless that changes) and allow the events of my life to unfold during the course of my life with ntcc. But for now, I will jump to the end. I spent the last few years of my life at ntcc miserable. All I could think was I HAD to keep going to ntcc though my heart knew this wasn't a place of God. I was finally realizing ntcc wasn't all they make their self out to be. I wanted to leave more than anything but the repeated brain washing left me feeling like if I left, I'd be on a one way ticket straight to hell. I went into a deep depression I had spiraled so bad that I honestly felt God allowed me to be born to show if he wanted to create a mistake, I would be it. I wanted to be dead more than anything. I had someone who did some work for my job once a week and she saw me in despair (I'm sure God showed her). She kept encouraging me to attend church she went to. I eventually got to the point all I wanted to do was go no where that had anything to do with God. This is sadly a feeling many people go thru at ntcc.

Eventually I left. After leaving, I went to a counselor. Not knowing anything about the former church (yet) I was diagnosed with severe depression and PTSD. As time would unfold my life, the counselor discovered I had a bad childhood but it was nothing compared to the mental control that comes from ntcc. PTSD is something that is sadly a part of leaving a cult such as ntcc. You struggle with everything you were brainwashed into believing. Fortunately I have been healing and able to move on and press forward. Unfortunately, my three sons aren't even close to being ok from our time there. They say it takes 1,000 'atta boys' to undo 1 bad thing said. After 13 years of being brain washed, one can only wonder how much time it will take to undo the damage done.

The next post I create will start from my beginning, how and why I came to ntcc. Until then; may you have a wonderful, peace filled life. May love abound and grace be upon you.